sig rattler vs springfield saint

What more can you ask for? And yet, accuracy from the bench was on par with our other test carbines. This is a 100-yard rifle. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). Two additional components from Bravo Company contributed to the Saints distinctive lines. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and . After our run with the Saint, all three targets showed five hits. As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. I was really happy . The Judge has been promoted! I think I've driven myself mad with comparing the pros and cons. The SCW assembly isnt just a short buffer tube; it includes a shortened, proprietary bolt carrier group (BCG), and the buffer and spring protrude into the upper receiver when the bolt is closed. Specs and Features Parts are straight off the "recommended" list, as Saint uses an M16-profile USGI-spec bolt carrier group with a select Carpenter 158 bolt. For an AR, it conceals and transports incredibly well, is surprisingly soft-shooting, accurate and reliable, unique and fun. Will it perform at greater distances? I'm having a hard time deciding on which one of these to purchase. Life has a melody. An example that comes to mind is how the handguard that comes stock has mlok that only goes halfway down, and people complain about it getting real hot, and conveniently they sell a upgraded version with mlok that covers the whole thing, and effectively solves . But After getting hooked on the Springfield Saint line I lost interest in the Sig , I feel bad. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. Saint Edge in .300 blackout? | The Armory Life Forum Rather, the AR-15 is an ideal defensive weapon necessary for the legally armed defense-conscious American. I would go with the sig. New! Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. To find out what it was like to operate these guns at speed, we visited the Impact Zone Range in Hempstead, Texas for some timed close-quarters fire. Springfield currently doesnt have any plans for a version in .300 AAC Blackout, but (hint hint) it would be a very smart move, as the .300 BLK performs much better out of short barrels than the 5.56. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. The idea was to replace 9mm submachine guns for support troops and special operations units with something more powerful that wasnt a full-sized, Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun news, gun reviews and gun magazines for gun enthusiasts, military and law enforcement, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our, ENTER TO WIN > Free Gun Friday for your chance to WIN the SIG Sauer P320 AXG Legion and Black Hills HoneyBadger Ammo, Anderson Manufacturing Kiger-9c Pro: Upgrades and EDC Ready, Stow it and Go: The Volquartsen 22 LR VT2 Takedown Rifle. then they had the new CZ 75 Tactical Sport 2 Blue in $1,699 . Eventually, ammo manufacturers answered the call, and now dozens offer 300 Blackout loads for a variety of uses. The top tier AR-15 rifle offered incredible performance at a very reasonable price. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. PDWs are an established, in-between class of firearm. I am reminded that short barrels are inherently more accurate as there is less flexing during the recoil cycle. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. But its really a 100-yard rifle with supersonic ammunition. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. Both rifles have a similar price, $809 for the Saint with discount code and $799 for the Tread. Give a Gift I really like the trigger in the Saint but the 716i has really good features too. "If I'd known I'd live this long I'd have taken better care of myself.". Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. If we were to describe the bolt lock/release assembly as a seesaw, the typical lower end could be seen as being constructed without the seat. SIG Sauer MCX-SPEAR: Civilian Version of XM7 Rifle Arrives! Thus, stabilizing subsonic ammo not an issue. For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). A free-float handguard would likely make this the perfect carbine. Can the SIG MCX Rattler do it? But I will check out Sig's new Tread SE to see if I like it Yeah. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. Top 5 Suppressor Brands - Firearms News AC63A5C8-2987-40EB-B654-CFB78764D21B_1530751250330.jpeg. Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Gun Tests has been independently reviewing firearms since 1989. Springfield provides a hand stop to keep your fingers from straying in front of the muzzle, but it is somewhat reduced in size. I got it for around 900 dollars a little over a year ago. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. The AR pistol is a platform of many uses. This removed any slack between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. Probably, but not at 900 fps. The trigger was forgiving in any situation, and construction was first rate. For sling attachment there was a fixed steel sling loop at the heel of the butt plate, or you could utilize the slot that ran parallel to the buffer tube beneath the cheek piece. We liked this because it simply wipes clean, making it easy to keep track of debris buildup and wear. Yes, we would have preferred a flat-top gas block with rail for attaching a folding front sight, and were not exactly sure how to connect a sling to the front end without pulling on the barrel, but were not sure there is much else wrong. Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . It has a nickel boron coating and provides a single-stage trigger pull. They are meant to be easier to use and harder-hitting than a handgun but smaller and lighter than a rifle. Joe Kurtenbach and Caleb Giddings also look at the first-ever optics-ready carry revolvers with the new Taurus 605 and 856 T.O.R.O. Shooting the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max 223 ammunition, we were rewarded with five-shot groups that measured an average of just 0.6 inch across. Comfortable to hold, the handguard offered the most versatility of our three rifles. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM rounds were next best, showing an average five-shot group measuring about 0.9 inch. And I also used a LaRue Tactical offset mount to install a SureFire M312 Vampire Scout, which produces white and IR light. That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. We really liked the handguard. Love this gun . From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. The heavier 120- to 125-grain loads performed similarly. Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. Using the Lehigh Defense ammunition, its a 50-yard rifle. But thats what your 20-inch barreled baby is for, right? Granted you give up some ballistic performance, but gain a gat easy to transport and, yes, conceal (say in a backpack). All Guns and Ammo subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. Another latecomer to AR manufacturing, Ruger has proven fast in picking up the rules of the game. The upper circumference was reduced, guiding the index finger to the trigger. Springfield has made some shitty moves in the past but they make an amazing AR. But there are a few key reasons why the .30-caliber is better suited for compact ARs. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? The target to our right showed three A-zone hits and a stray shot in the D-zone, furthest from center. After some time and the Rattler was more widely seen in the wild. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, it's perfect. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. Thanks for opening my eyes. And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . The CMMG Mk4T was the tale of two rifles. Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. Although the drill was shot cold, we couldnt help but be more warmed up by the time we reached the third gun. Essentially it boils down to performance and suppressibility. and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . Combine the heft with a quality suppressor and the Blackouts recoil is negated to next to nothing, giving the pistol excellent follow-up shot accuracy. You got the CZ shadow 2 orange is it 9mm or 40 cal. In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. I dont own any Springfield armory but it seems they do one dumbass thing on every gun they build, but different every time. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. The Rattler has a one in five twist rate. They said nothing as short as the rattler. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. Sig Sauer. They are more compact and lighter than ever, Making it the ideal weapon for Rapid deployment and close quarter work. Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16" I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. The only complaint is the 300 Blackouts A2 flash hider. I realize in the current climate you may have to take what you can get. Minuteman. To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. Sure, but thats not its sweet spot. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. The M-Lok handguard gives you the ability to attach . With the brace collapsed, it is just 18.75 inches long. No problems except for the gas blowback. They are dead to me. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Personally Id avoid Springfield due to personal issues with the company and their politics. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). A forum community dedicated to SIG Sauer Pistols and SIG Sauer Rifles owners and enthusiasts. The Springfield Armory Saint Victor .308 was announced 2 months after SIG had secured the sale with India in April 2019. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX ammo was the most consistently accurate of the supersonics, with a group right at 0.75 inches. I recently bought a Christensen Arms CA-15 G2 in Burnt Bronze, Stainless Steel Barrel w/ Carbon Fiber hand guard. With a 9.6-inch barrel, M-LOK BCM Gunfighter handguard, forward handstop and more, that SAINT served as a solid introductory model. We applied a snap-on buttpad from Limbsaver and was pleasantly surprised at how much more comfortable it was to shoot. As such, the challenge for Springfield Armory was to offer an AR-15 that distinguished itself from the competition and was affordably priced. Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. Sig Sauer New M400 Tread Snakebite SE 5.56 - The Armory Life The art of shooting groups from support is about being patient. Let's pick up there. SA ars get a lot of shit from people but it has been a really good rifle. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. Hence there are solid copper bullets for high speed applications in 16 inch carbines (1/6 rate or greater) that shoot 300 BLK, but the ammo is expensive. With the shooter lined up on the center target, the object was to land as many hits as possible into the central A-zone of each paper target within a fixed 10-second time limit. You get what you pay for, in this case a pistol loaded with the companys high-performance custom parts and extras you wont find on economy models. With most loads, a 9-inch barrel is enough bore for a complete powder burn. Installed with a 3/8-inch drive socket from the front, it can fit under handguards. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . Lets see if our money was well spent. The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. So was the grip and handguard. While chambered in 5.56 NATO, the Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW has but a 5.5-inch barrel. However, on the PDW, the Reptilia grip and the provided 20-round magazines look perfect. He called it a stutter. It may not display this or other websites correctly. In late 2019, Springfield released the SAINT Pistol, featuring upgraded components and a retail price of just $849. The new 9mm suppressor can mount easily to any pistol barrel threaded x28 inches and doesn't compromise on sound suppression, gas blowback or recoil. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. Springfield SAINT Edge PDW: New 5.56 Pistol Is Just 18.75 Inches Long View Product. Cookie Notice During our action test, we simply ignored the sights and read the dot. Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. So these two were on my list . SIG MCX Rattler SBR . The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. Featured one of the most consistent triggers weve tried and costly ambidextrous controls. How the Springfield Saint Compares to Other AR-15 - The Shooter's Log Brand: Springfield. Knowing this, I still was dubious when I picked up the PDW from my local FFL. Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. One thing I would like to point out that seemingly even many owners of the Maxim Defense SCW and larger CQB braces and stocks dont seem to know is that you only have to use the button to collapse it. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. But Wilsons Q-Comp flash hider/muzzle brake also does its part in keeping the gun manageable. The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. The Sig Virtus has these possible configurations: 300 Blackout: Barrel Lengths 6.75", 9", and 16" 5.56mm : Barrel Lengths 11.5" and 16" The Virtus is the more flexible platform, but there is nothing wrong with the Rattler. Probably 2k rounds through it and has always gone bang. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. But upon closer inspection, we noticed that the safety and magazine release were ambidextrous. So goes the AR-556 line of ARs. With its A1 front-sight assembly, two-piece plastic handguard and M4 buttstock, the M400 Classic did not appear to be a carbine with the type of upgrades we were looking for. The new big bore pistols feature industry-first capacity, with a standard 15-round capacity and 22+1 rounds of 10mm or 18+1 rounds of .45 ACP from the extended magazines. With the desire for a more up-to-date AR-15, we went shopping and found that we didnt have to break the bank just get comfortable within a price range of about $900 to $1250 dollars. I really appreciate the input. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD, Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16". Save my name and email to use for future comments. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. Interestingly, Sig is one of the gunmakers that subscribe to faster-than-usual twist rates for 300 Blackout1:5. To activate it from either side of the gun, I mounted its tape switch on the Rattlers Picatinny top rail. According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. Your welcome BET7, I've looked at the Christensen Arms and pretty sweet , Also was dead set on getting a Danial defense DD4 after shooting it at the expo , but didn't . The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. Subsonic ammunition, as its name suggests, pushes bullets below the speed of sound. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. 7 Things You Need to Know Before Buying an AR Pistol This video does make me feel better about Springfield. All Rights Reserved. For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. Barrel-twist rate was 1:7, and breaking down the rifle revealed a reduced-mass hammer. However, the range in resistance spanned from about 6.75 pounds to almost 8.0 pounds. Hampering this a bit out of the box is a mil-spec clone trigger, easily rectified with your favorite upgrade model. In use, it seemed to all but disappear. 8 of the Top ARs for the Money - Wide Open Spaces Why pay more? The SIG MCX Rattler Review - YouTube The PDW with the Hate Brake produced far less flash and noise than a 16-inch-barreled AR equipped with a traditional muzzlebrake. I bought a Tread on a whim. A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). I said you really loved shooting the orange . The new rifle is built on an aluminum billet chassis with carbon-fiber forend and cheek riser featuring V-block bedding. As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. Springfield Armorys $899 Saint, the manufacturers first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread . If the Mk4T had either of the triggers found on the SIG Sauer or Springfield Armory carbines, it might have been the accuracy champ of this test. I found myself hooking my index finger around the front of it while shooting as opposed to actually using it as a hand stop. Sig Sauer The AR Pistol Afield. It loves 150 grain bullets, does well down to 120 grain below that that deer,hog killer doesnt group to my expectations. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. A spring detent pin was compressed to fold it down. To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. When I saw it, I wanted to hate it, specifically for what it isnt. However, I ended up loving it for what it is. I fired the Rattler off-hand from 10 and 15 yards with the earlier test loads and a few others, including Winchesters 150-grain Deer Season XP ammunition and Noslers 220-grain BTs. That saint victor is 400 above msrp though. SAINT VICTOR PIST 300BLK 30+1. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. All three-rifle barrels were marked 5.56 NATO. After all, the eminently suppressible, hard-hitting .30-caliber was tailored for such gunscarbine and smaller that is. They are going to err on the side of caution by telling you they are incompatible but in this situation they are right. One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. The free-floated handguard offered Keymod machining on three sides, and the Picatinny top rail extended 11 inches from the receiver. Full Member. During our action tests, we found the fixed front sight a little distracting, even though we had it aligned (co-witnessed) with our Romeo4 red-dot sight. Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. Saw that email pop up today. The trigger presented a crisp break at about 7.6 pounds of resistance with barely an ounce or two in variation from shot to shot. Saint Victor .308 competition | The Armory Life Forum About every 20 to 25 shots, the trigger would pull straight through. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle that's easy to conceal. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . Love my M400 Tread and if I was in the market for another AR Rifle, i'd absolutely consider it. The combination of the mid-length gas system and the heavy buffer make a Saint very soft shooting. The other rifles did not suffer this complaint. The $1000 CMMG Mk4T may still use the M1 buttstock and grip, but the 416 stainless-steel barrel offered a 1:7 twist on the inside and a bead-blast finish on the outside.

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sig rattler vs springfield saint

sig rattler vs springfield saint